around the block
The first and most obvious answer to this question is yes. If one throws an event that draws more people than your space can fit, you move up. Bigger is of course better, and in all things, we want to be as big as we can get. Right? I’m not so sure.
It’s a question I get a lot. People tell me that we need a bigger space, and the running joke seems to be that we should move it to the Cow Palace. Its definitely something we think about not the Cow Palace – when I see the hour and half wait to get in, get angry emails from customers (actually just got my first one a couple days ago), and patiently explain to vendors for the 20th time that in fact we can’t let anyone else in at the moment, lest we all die fiery deaths as martyrs for the local food movement (translation: we’ve reached fire code capacity).
We’ve done our best to make the market accessible to as many people as possible. We started this past December in a small Victorian in the Mission (seven vendors and 150 customers), and moved to a warehouse on Capp St. (30 vendors and 700 customers)— both still not big enough. When we approached SomArts I thought that was it. There was no way we could overfill that space. This of course hasn’t proven true.
The space we have now, SomArts, is in the range of 5000 feet. That’s 35ft wide, and 144 feet long. It’s a large space by any measure.
We pay several thousand dollars to rent SomArts for a night and by SF standards, that’s very cheap. The next space up in size is about $10,000. That’s before shelling out for a cleaning staff, security, insurance, alcohol license, the band, equipment, and all the other less obvious costs that go into creating an event for 2,000 people. I don’t say this to complain, but to set the stage for a fact: If we got a bigger space, we would be forced to raise the vendor fees. As it is, the vendor fees don’t cover the cost of the space, which is why you paid $2 to get in this month. In May, we lost money on the market because the event was free. We don’t need to make a killing, but a market that loses money every month will not be around very long.
“But wait,” you say, “a bigger space would mean more people, more people equals more money, so no need to charge the vendors more.” Not necessarily. A larger space would definitely let more people enter at the same time, but the number of people coming in would not be guaranteed to go up by the amount we would need to make it worth the costs.
The current vendor fee is $50, a very low bar for entry into a commercial sales space like ours, but for some of our vendors it’s a stretch to pay that cost. Our vendors are making products that they are passionate about, but are also very expensive to produce. The profit margins are already slim, and it wouldn’t feel right to charge the $100-$300 per stall that a larger space would require.
I like the size it is. The market feels more like a big party, rather than a vast trade show. I like that we can fit upwards of 40 vendors inside and still have room for a couple hundred people, while at the same time being able to see the whole space in one sweep.
I like SomArts. We have a good deal of freedom at SomArts and the people who work there. They are very supportive of our ideas, and seem to genuinely want to make things work for us. No one working on the market has much professional event organizing experience; there are a million random things to think about when planning a market, so getting some help along the way is key. A larger commercial space probably would not offer that kind of support.
I like the idea that in creating a market for the SF food community to come to together, we are at the same time supporting a venerable SF non-profit event and art space. A space that hosts the kind of events that make SF what it is. They go out of their way to court and support burgeoning orgs (like ours) that would otherwise not be able to afford such a professional space, and for that they deserve our support. Every person that walks through their door helps them to get funding from grants as well as the city, so 2,000 people coming through each month at our market gives them some real leverage.
People do have to wait. I don’t feel good about it (although most people I talk to seem pretty happy with the whole experience, meeting fellow food obsessives in line is always fun). It’s great that people come out to show so much support, and ideally we wouldn’t make them wait so long to show that support. Note: If you want to miss the lines, come during the day next month, there will be tons of room.
Next months SF Underground Market will again be at SomArts on July 24th(this time on a weekend!). Although there is often a wait at night (hint: for a more relaxed time, come during the day). I want to say that I really do appreciate that people wait as long as they do. That kind of support shows the vendors that there is a market for what they make, and encourages them to keep getting better at what they do. I do believe that bigger is not always better, and there is a really intimate vibe now that I feel like we may lose if we expand. This doesn’t mean it will always be there, but for the time being we’re staying put. Let me know what you think. You think we should move? Did you see anything at the last market that needs changing? Thanks for reading, and thanks for coming, see you all next month!
Thanks,
Iso
photo by Robin Jolin: robinjolin.com
i agree with at least one of the previous commenters — try some things out and see how it goes. No harm, no foul.
i waited a couple of hours to get in a couple of months ago and it totally sucked. fortunately i was with good friends, but it sucked not knowing — it was like waiting for a crappy Muni bus w/o having NextBus — it makes the experience unnecessarily dreadful. at least with Nextbus, for instance, i can go score a coffee or vial of crack if i know how long before the next bus comes.
and i saw lots of folks waiting by themselves — i felt bad for them — kind of humiliating, imo. we need to look out for each other better.
i’d also be open to making sure you turn a ‘profit’ for every market — why not? if you have unusually high turnout, take a percentage of the cash and give it back to…someone/something. or create a ‘building fund’ so you can eventually buy your own place. or create a co-building fund to help SomArts buy their space, then then the UM would get discounted rent in perpetuity. and how to do that? easy — spread the cost around the biggest group of people possible — the customers. instead of $2 entrance fee, try $3 or $4 — we’re all getting awesome samples anyways — it’s worth it. hardship cases (of which I could be one!) can volunteer to gain free entrance.
congestion pricing is an option — ‘happy hour’ is during the day – $1 entrance fee, with higher fees for busier times of the day/night – simple, straightforward. plenty of ideas out there — let’s see how they go.
also, how can i get one of these things going in San Jose? i’m not the foodie-type to organize such a thing, but i could help get it going.
best!
I’d like to see the market be a smaller more *underground* market with less people showing up. Maybe you could announce the date closer to the event? So if people can’t make it because of scheduling conflict they’ll try to catch it next month and the space won’t get so packed.
I second the pre-sale ticket idea. I think you could sell a limited number of tickets in advance for a higher price, say $10 or $20. People would still be able to line up and get in for less, but if some really don’t like to wait or to have the uncertainty, they can be guaranteed a quicker entry.
Thanks for putting it on – great event!
I haven’t made it to one of your markets yet because I live in Half Moon Bay and wasn’t much into waiting on line for hours at night, so I was REALLY happy when you announced the daytime market as well. I’m less interested in the live music/eating food there aspect and more into the idea of purchasing items I can take home and cook with, so the daytime aspect is WAY more appealing to me on many levels.
It sounds to me like you’re doing the right things to make it appealing to the largest amount of people. And we all know that when things get too big they are usually ruined by the commercial aspect … so keep up the good work.
How about timed entry tickets sold online? That way, customers, vendors and organizers can plan ahead and of course, that would ease the crush and the potential overcrowding. Sometimes in life events sell out….Love the market!!
keep the market small–it’s part of the charm. support the vendors by keeping their costs down so they have the ability and desire to share their creations–this is, again, part of the charm. if an expense were to be nixed, start with booze. if an expense were to be added/built on, start with music. lastly, if i had it my way there would be more event dates and vegan options. the market and its community are gems, so understand the trade that would be made for any changes. thank you and take care.
I love the “taster portions” idea suggested by Daniel. I hadn’t thought of that but he’s right. The “small plates” idea could be easily inocorporated, (at least I think so– I’m not a vendor but…) and give everyone the opportunity to sample more yummy treats!
I agree with the too long a wait and the inability to get around. I think a saturday all day is the way to go. The friday day doesn’t get the business. The SomArt venue is great.keeping it intimate and underground with vendors who are passionate and learning the business of selling their ware was the appeal to my friends. You start letting restaurants and ths spirit is lost.
Thanks for what you’re doing.
I’m with MP. Why not go bigger? I went a few markets ago, before the crowds and got right in. But it got so crowded once I was on the main floor that it was like being up front at a concert, people pushing forward and being smashed up against someone. Not pleasant, which is why I haven’t gone back. I just wanted to get out of there as soon as I could and it’s a shame because I was interested in seeing all of the vendors but there was no way I could see what was on both sides of the isles because there was a point of no return. I would have been happy to wait in a longer line in order to enjoy my time in there and not feel like I was packed in with the other sardines.
You aren’t selling out if you go bigger. I would be happy to pay $5 to have a less rushed and crowded experience and to see even more vendors. It seems a little snooty to keep it small just because. Keep up the great work though and we appreciate all the hard work that goes into this event!
Trista
have you signed up and come by sample day? We’re always looking for new people.
Thanks
Iso
Scaling up is not always the way to go. There may be other solutions. It would be good if the market was organized a bit better. (it is getting better slowly) The time I went traffic was going in 2 directions and there was no way to get around.
I didn’t wait in line because I went early. Encourage early birds by not charging a door fee until prime time. (or charging less)
Keep the vendor roster changing constantly. Even if someone is good in a category they shouldn’t be doing the market over and over.
Have people who are giving free samples only, outside if possible. It might keep the folks in line happy and get them connected to the market while they wait. (don’t charge vendors giving free samples)
It’s not snotty to keep the market a manageable size. Organizational problems will go with you to any space.
Claire
Thanks for the suggestions. We do try to rotate vendors through and out of the market, but the truth is we let in just about everyone who applies (as long as they make good stuff), and generally are able to accept all the returning vendors that are interested.